Against a Penal Substitute:
God is Importance.
So, how you relate to Him, is most important to you.
He’ll not trash what’s important.
1. A Penal Substitute is only required for the Spiritual Penalty.
2. The Spiritual Penalty is only required in as much as we are Part Sin.
3. We are Part Sin only in as much as a Penal Substitution pays.
A circle isn’t bad but this one distracts from the gospel:
1. Biblically poor terminology.
2. Logically, letting us mix God and sin.
Let us be established in what we together presume, namely:
-Divine Mystery won't excuse illogicalities without scripture.
-Self contradiction is illogical
-Logic's purpose is to communicate (share/preach.)
Then the function of this book will be to prove two claims:
1. Validity: A PS is the most likely interpretation of no verse. (a breach of Sola Scriptura)
2. Soundness: A PS contradicts PSAT. (People don’t realize they already disagree with it.)
For application:
-Don’t preach God pouring wrath on Jesus
-Don’t say Jesus “paid” (PSA wrath feeds on “pay”) instead say Jesus “trashed, took away, rid” our debts. (I made a long list of synonyms and metaphors.) Optimally, use Bible terminology. It actually uses pay in a specific way, as we’ll see.
Resetting the logic:
PSA has two payments: Christ's and God's.
1. Christ holds no charge.
2. Thus God’s gloriously free to hold no charge. (Sin’s death prevents jealousy.) God was bound by His mercy to provide justice for the oppressed who call on Him. The cross creates a starting point to measure God’s mercy with the law. Jesus goes past the farthest oppressed, thus owning the law, which frees God from treating believers like unbelievers. In positive terms, God is earning glory by using Jesus to deal with those who call upon Him.
Thus Christ’s cross makes God no longer bound. How? The two payments can each actually be proven mathematically. Christ’s dying mathematically zeros the law, and thus becomes the law by being everyone's sins through debt consolidation. Since the first payment is made, God is no longer obligated (by the oppressed) to charge a second PAYMENT(PS). Again, math proves this too. That means that for God to use a PS (because of our affair with sin) would be optional, as sin is dead. PS would be only like a maybe, closure for jealousy. Joab warned David about that gap though, as people still tend to use such a weakness for extrapolations.
Nevertheless, we see that if God chooses a PS, then it is without necessity that we know of. The cause is unknown, speculative. The PS circle is thrown into this “weak” area. Note that PS, is a second payment, but it is not it's own PSAT adapter framework. The PSAT adapter uses the agreed logical first payment as well as verses we agree on to gain support for the PS. But the PS itself, is never the most likely interpretation of any verse. Also, the PS is self contained (a circle) and also logically impossible to connect. From this embarrassing (as people often hide it with it’s framework) lack of connection, people extrapolate all evil from it. Now let me point out, this dark gap cannot be sanctioned as divine mystery (to high for us to know), if it’s not explicitly scriptural. And again, the framework of PSAT uses plenty of scripture, not the PS itself. To transpose our perspective: if PS is divine mystery, yet disconnected from the Bible so that we have no reference to get to it; then PSA is something too high for us to know; that is, we shouldn’t know it.
Bible time:
Over twenty times, I see a sacrifice is to trash sins. Even so, God won't be faulted for not putting sin to death preferable with His body, or at least passively with ours (hell.) Yes, God prefers to actively empower sin's death. To give His body for that, is glory. He doesn't refuse HimSelf the honor to die away sins.
A sinners current condemnation is not yet finally executed. There’s no hell for you yet. Death comes before judgment (Heb 9:26-8), so Jesus died before He could become a PS. PS is basically wrath to come, injected into thee hours on the cross. Jesus “wrath” exhausting and outlasting sin in this life, prevents God’s wrath in the next life from being exhausted upon Jesus for three hours.
The cross is a sin outlet, not a wrath outlet. People get wrath, not sin. Christ is Head, and means no sin to God ward.
Jesus is not firstly a wall for us against God’s wrath but a wall for God, against our sins. Keep your priorities straight. Jesus death prevents Jesus from a PS. His wrath, meaning condemnation executed at the cross, prevented PS wrath.
The Bible says that God doesn’t account sin to us, but righteousness. The Bible doesn’t say about either of those being accounted to Jesus, but PSAT does.
The following verses tell us that God trashes what contradicts Him:
Adam left God for us all, (the law recaptured us by sin) and Christ left sin for us all.
Sin= “transgression of the law” (1 Jn 3:4)
The law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.(Rom 4:15)
A law is “a system of rules a community recognizes as regulating.”
So, a law defines a relationship.
For example: law of sin (Rom 4:15,) law of Christ…
God's Lamb takes away sin "in His body" or "in His flesh."
Lev 16:21 Sin goes on the goat. But still, they put the hand on the Lamb's head as well. So, I think the symbolism is the same.
The Lamb is not hurt as a sinner, but only as sin. (Hurt and death aren’t punishment.) The sin put on the Lamb is not imputed to the Lamb. An animal can’t mean your sins against God, but it can die- and that’s why it’s used. Why spotless? So that it doesn’t become a sort of PS.
“put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
God saves punishment for hell, but destroys sin for heaven. Final punishment awaits the eternal realm. Jesus can only die in the temporary realm. And He did, with sin. So sin is gone before He enters eternity. Meaning, no punishment for anyone. Jesus death in the temporary realm prevented eternal danger.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.”
2Cor 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Sin not sinner. Jesus was made sin. But knew not the sin He carried. Unlike Adam and Eve, He never forsook God to join another. So, He died with sin, still never knowing them, never trusting them spiritually. Thus His God, raised Him up from them.
Notice also the parallel. God becoming our physical victim, would be a problem, unless we deduct it was for forgiveness. He was made what God rid. We are made what God accepts. Moreover, what we did wrong- He was made. And what God did right- we were made. He was our work, we were His.
The Old Testament Lambs were not punished while they took sins away. So also, Christ. On the cross sins die, not sinners punished. Basically, He doesn’t replace us, but our sins.
Col 2:8-14 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit,
… putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, …dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh (as not sanctified with the Spirit yet)…quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; blotting out the handwriting …contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
1Pe_2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree
(Rm 8:3, 34) Who can condemn us? Christ. But instead: “Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh”
Imputed doesn’t mean put. Imputed means reckoned or accounted for… His righteousness is imputed to us, not our sins to Him. Jesus carried our sins through suffering to death. Suffering shows resistance; the death was not accidental.
1Pe_4:1 suffered for us in the flesh…
“For”(hyper) doesn’t have to mean a substitute. He gave His life, in the place of our release, and anything can be a sort of exchange. But that’s too vague for PS.
Heb 12:2 for(anti) the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame,
Heb 2:9 Jesus,…made a little lower than the angels for(dia) the suffering of death…
Now, common sense says that God can pre-give (forgive, give afore) us more than we can steal, especially to change our motive. But on the cross we see (not only man against God) but God against sin, not men. That is, Jesus is putting away, condemning sin(Rom 8) with His body to justify God in the Spirit (1Tim 3:16.) How? Taking sin away from God, is a performance which declares that God doesn't accept the sin He tolerated, meaning sin isn't right in God's opinion. ("Just" and "Right" are the same Greek words.) Like, look at the blood beat out of me; this is real toleration, not a play toleration.
PenSubs like Rom 3:25-6. In simple words, it says:
God tolerates sin, so He tolerated our sins.
This toleration isn’t sin.
The propitiation is evidence that God is without sin.
Romans 3:25 cannot justify PSAT, without their assuming an implication. Moreover, assuming the opposite of what the text says is likely a wrong assumption. I mean, PSAT assumes that because God wasn’t offended at the cross, He must have been offended (to empty His stored offenses.) Since you could equally read in the opposite interpretation, there’s no reason for PSAT to leach Rom 3:25 unless to deceive.
Particularly, PenSubs like that word propitiation which comes from an old Hebrew root meaning, covering (of the mercy seat. Heb 9:5) God is happy because He doesn’t see our sins.
Therefore, PSAT merely benefits from Rom 3:25-6 a platform to assume PS. It is noteworthy that assuming the antithesis may be the worst type of assumption. They assume: Because He’s not offended by sin here, He must have been already offended by sin here.
Blood cleanses us from all sin. (1Jn 1:7)
Washed us from our sins in His Own blood. (Rev 1:5)
Like water washes, Jesus blood went down to the ground with impurities, sin. And He gives His blood to God, not just to evidence the washing, but to receive it’s power.
His sacrificial blood to put away sin, was payment enough to release us. No PS debt besides.
What was paid for? Release. That’s what ransom and redeem mean.
Jesus paid the redemption price, (Matt 20:28) a ransom to loose us from sin.
Christ has redeemed (released) us from the law's curse and to God, (with His death) (Gal 3:13)
(God sent Him to save us so) so Jesus gave HimSelf a ransom (release) for all (1 Tim 2:6)
Gave HimSelf… to redeem (release) us from all iniquity(Tit 2:14)
Obtained eternal redemption (release) for us. (Heb 9:12)
Christ labors to purge transgressions, not pay a debt. Our debt is trashed, unpaid. The PS itself is only about the debt so it doesn’t go here; but let’s speculate where Christ takes the sin to death away from us and God? Without the connection to God, we offend God. So Jesus crucified that independence on a tree, because that’s where it came from. So, sins become accidents, meant to lack will but not to be judged like people. They can die though, and Jesus died them.
But are sins paid? No, but the Bible says:
Forgiven
Freed from sin
Lay not this sin
Will not count sin
Sin is not counted
Take away our sins
Remember no more
Sins may be blotted out
Hid from Thy face…and covered (quoting David)
Hide a multitude of sins. James 5:20
(The scapegoat wasn't offered to God, but instead sent far away... As east from west...cast into the depths...)
God’s wrath:
...he that believeth not the Son... the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36b
...He reserveth wrath for His enemies. Nah 1:2b
...for the wrath of God .... men who hold the truth in unrighteousness Rom 1:18
...for (sins) the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: Col 3:6
It says children, because they’re not yet held fully responsible as they will be in hell. From another aspect: They are fully responsible, but in a different way. Nature gives any life a chance to adapt, repent; otherwise they die. We should attribute that gentleness to God.
What about us?
Eph_2:3 … were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
By nature, means we lacked a spiritual connection with and blessing of God. Without which we could do nothing He accepts. Both the relationship and works were lacking. That’s called “sin nature.” (btw, the secondary, more passive definition for “sin nature” is: man’s observed tendency to sin.) Until judgment, no spot is yet prepared for people in the devil’s hell. After judgment, their place in heaven will be given to another.
John 3 says we're condemned already for not believing! The referenced were not in hell. So, if it’s our condemnation He bears, (not just our sin) that condemnation will be dead before Jesus could suffer it in the afterlife. Of course, the Bible never says that God condemns Christ, even in our place. (Christ is doing the condemning both of our sin, and not of us.)
By the way, we see peace and reconciliation with the cross passages, not wrath. He is slow to wrath, for people to repent. God is angry with and hates the wicked, meaning hard heart. But God is long-suffering for sake of the elect.
God (grievously) forsook Jesus to men:
Cry of Dereliction
... My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me? Matt 27:46
(vinegar)
Jesus, when He had cried AGAIN with a loud voice, yielded up the SPIRIT.
(vinegar)
Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the SPIRIT.
...When Jesus had cried with a loud voice, He said, Father, into Thy hands I commend My Spirit: and having said thus, He gave up the SPIRIT. Luke 23:46
(vinegar)
...He said, "It is finished": and He bowed His head, and gave up the SPIRIT. Jn 19:30
Context from Psalm 22:
1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (to oppressing men)
why art thou so far from helping(not hurting) me, and from the words of my roaring? (Gethsemane)
4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them. (from oppressing men)
6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
8 He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him. (He saved others; Himself He cannot save)
16 ...they pierced My hands and My feet.
18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
19 But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.
20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the DOG.(not GOD)
24 ...(God) hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; (God doesn’t abhor the One being afflicted!)
neither hath he hid his face from Him; but when he cried unto him, He heard. (Did not hide His face)
Heb 5:7-9 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; ...learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; ...being made perfect, He became the Author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him;
Observation from that quote:
He doesn't use the affectionate and spiritual term, "Father."
Other scripture implies that Son of God referred to the Son of Man, Jesus
Order: 1. "Forsaken" 2. vinegar 3. "It's finished"/"into thy hands" (loud cry.) 4. gave up the Spirit
It's not in John's logical doctrine. It's not in Luke's emotional observations.
It's in Matthew, because He's quoting an OT Psalm. And it's in Mark as it's attention grabbing.
Jesus despises the suffering why? For the joy before Him (Heb 12)
He was hungry, and tempted in all points as we are. Heb 4:15 (Gal 3, under the same curse. 100% man.)
The forsaking was before His Spirit left His body.
The body without the spirit is dead, implies James.
You ask "why?" in order to change the situation not being critical of God. He didn't wish suicide.
From context, people felt He was calling for someone. (He wanted God)
No one can imagine suffering completely undeservingly
Abraham and Ishmael "gave up the Ghost" Gen 25 Issac, Jacob also. Job talked about it. Jeremiah spoke of it. esp. Jer 14:10
People speculate that Jesus was deprived of feeling God's favor toward Him. But God truely and faithfully favored Him anyway. God was the only One He could relate with at such deep level.
...God left (Hezekiah), to try him, that he might know all that was in his heart. 2 Chron 32:31 Also, reason was withheld from Nebuchadnezzar. Dan 4:36
Has a PS been the most likely interpretation of any verse I gave so far? Consider that, as we continue peeling away atonement verses from PS, one by one.
Why'd He die?
...Christ died for our 2. sins(to purge them) according to the scriptures; 1Co 15:3
...He was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. Isa 53:9
Death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto 2. sin once: but in that he liveth, he 1. liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be 2.dead (not paid or punished) indeed 2. unto sin, but alive 1. unto God Rom 6:10
For to this end Christ both died and rose; and revived, that he might be 1.Lord both of the dead and living. Rom 14:9
...it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: (to fulfill prophecy) and that repentance (2.from sin 1.to God) and 2. remission of sins should be preached in his name. Luk 24:46-47
Who 2. died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should 1. live together with him. 1Thess 5:10
And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto 2.themselves, (Lordship) but unto 1.him which died for them, and 1. rose again. (for God) 2 Cor 5:15
New covenant… 1. they shall all know me, 2. for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Jer 31:34 (Hebrews quotes this passage twice.)
Offering, not payment: (His body was needed, Heb 10:5)
the offering of the body of Jesus Heb 10:10
by one offering Heb 10:14
given himself for us an offering Eph 5:2
offered one sacrifice for sins Heb 10:12
Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many... Heb 9:28
through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, Heb 9:14
Baptism about His death and resurrection.
Communion:
... my body...in remembrance of me... cup is the new testament in my blood: ...in remembrance of me. ...shew the Lord's death 1Co 11:26
What's the Bible say about payment?
2 Pet 2:1-3 denying the Lord that bought them, …through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you…
1Cor 6:18-20 Flee fornication… sinneth against his own body…ye are not your own… bought with a price:
1Cor 7:23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.
So we see that Christ’s (sin rinsing) blood is more valuable than money. And God owns you more. But these three sanctification verses are not evidence of a PS atonement.
There’s yet one other passage which may link the atonement with payment. Rom 6:23 reads “wages of sin is death.” James 1 also points out that sin results in death. But here we see an extra meaning. Namely, wages are compared to a gift. That is, the earned vs the unearned. However, not everything unearned is Penal Substitution. And if everything was a PS, then Penal Substitution would mean nothing.
Firstly, it's the only actual paid passage they have. Secondly, just because it's a payment doesn't make it a PS. Thirdly, we notice that if it's a penalty package, it's only a package of our deaths, and not a package of our hells collected into His death. But the PS package can't exist as only a package of our deaths. Therefore, this verse cannot help PS.
Again about Rom 6:23: Sin results in death, we worked that.
It is most likely that our enemy death is not a PS. Just as the death of a butterfly is not a PS. And it is most likely that what is earned is not a PS. Your boss doesn't pay you a PS. Well, that's the explicit. But implicitly, death seems to be not directly from God, as opposed to PS. Like, why would God create a devil to do evil, if God wanted the blame? So, why do they like this verse? Simply because of the word, “wages.”
A law doesn’t necessarily use penalties to enforce its rule. For example, the NT has no penalties.
If one is dead (since Adam) to their first spiritual connection with God, and now won’t accept the new relationship with God- their eternal habitation will be away from God. They were cast out of the old relationship because of evil doings. But they forfeit the new relationship because of unbelief.
Solid PSAT quotes:
Wayne Grudem, a highly respected Reformed theologian: God... "poured out on Jesus the fury of his wrath: Jesus became the object of the intense hatred of sin and vengeance against sin which God had patiently stored up since the beginning of the world."
Wyatt Graham, director of The Gospel Coalition said "This act implies that God hates humans since he would have poured wrath upon humans if not for the work of Christ’s cross."
Isaiah 53
Isa 53:10a to bruise Jesus: pleased the LORD
Notice "to bruise Him" is an infinitive. That's what pleased the Lord. Scripture doesn’t directly say God smote Jesus. And since God is ultimately responsible for all evil, we cannot at all say that Christ being on the cross at all favors a PS interpretation.
God handed over Jesus to men. That’s only pragmatically, a death sentence. And God is ultimately responsibility for everything requiring PS to require a direct link. So, let’s pretend you find that direct link, a passage where God directly smites Jesus (when Jesus gives the sacrifice.) Still hurt is in most cases is not necessarily paying a penalty. This means, PS is too random than to add to the Bible.
Isa 53:10b He hath put Him to grief:
Notice the KJV italics: It's saying, God did grievously (forsaking Christ to men.) It was grievous. What grieves? Death. Whose? His Son's. Thus the italics. That's not punishing anything or venting PS on Jesus. Would PS be a likely implication though? As likely as adding other random motivations. So, not likely.
Isa 53:11a He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied:
He was satisfied when He saw His Son bruised. It was a great and satisfying work or cause. It makes sense without any PS. Would PS be a likely implication though? Any heresy could say that God was satisfied with it. It’s not a PS debt being resolved.
Isaiah 53:4-5 PSAT sees this as saying: We thought He was hurt for his sins, but really He was hurt for our sins. I have no need to disagree. More generally, I might interpret this: "We only thought He just being punished, but really he was sacrificing away sins."
Other Isa 53:5
wounded for our transgressions,
bruised for our iniquities: (died for our sins)
the chastisement of our peace was upon him;
with his stripes we are healed. (like, washed clean of sin by His blood)
Isa 53:6 the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. (Multiple passages like 1 Peter 2:24 talk about bearing sin, which doesn't mean that Christ either meant or paid any of them.)
A PS is not the best interpretation of any PSAT-framework verse so far, right?
Gal 3:13 “made a curse for us” We could actually now say(Rm 8:34) that as Judge He has the potential to be a curse to us, but He won't. Of course, this verses isn’t saying that. It says that He was cursed. (Deu 21:23 …he that is hanged is accursed of God;)
Saying that Jesus is a curse, sounds strange. PSAT can use strange language verses because people are rightly careful not to toss out random interpretations for them. But these mysterious verses shouldn’t disagree with what’s well known.
Sometimes people stretch this to mean that Jesus was united to our reason for being cursed. Like after dying, He’s no more one flesh with sin and it’s curse. Death resolved that link we made, and there never could be spiritual intention link from nonspiritual sin.
Obviously, Jesus isn’t punished for the good deed of carrying sins away. PSAT only says He’s punished while carrying sins. Either way, seems superficial because God didn’t want the sins around. They should think that His “wrath was emptied” only while sins were carried away, and not some extra fee.
Exo 34:7 (God forgives and) will by no means clear the guilty. (Heb: no clear clear) The double is emphasis. God is either merciful, or strict. Two different standards. PSAT preachers use this verse to say, God uniformly punishes all (including vessels of mercy.) But of those punished, some are saved. This interpretation is illogical to this verse as it does clear some who were guilty.
The cross was a Dark Day but not because God was excising a hatred of us.
Paul said that he would go to hell for unbelievers. But Christ is better than Paul. He also said in Philemon, I will repay, although you owe me much more. Will God then repay? He gave His Son.
We saw above, Ps 22:6, that Jesus felt like a worm, rather than a man. Isa 52 end: His visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men. The Hebrew can be interpreted, beyond recognition as a man. Either way, PS is not so much about his visage and form.
PSA people like this passage:
1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, … Christ our passover is sacrificed for us.
We’re passed over because we’re cleansed, but not first paid for.
The Hebrew word for ransom can be translated, bribe. But it’s up to the translator to determine the best connotation for God.
More Logic:
I thought this was revealing. I asked a big AI to list EVIDENCE for a Penal Substitution. Instead, it listed these threats, which are all false:
-Mercy requires a PS.
-Mercy without PS undermines holiness.
-Mercy and justice only exist through PS.
-Without PS God's moral order isn't balanced.
-Problem of evil needs PS for wrath's resolution.
-God demands a PS for sin.
They say, God is jealous and just. But an attribute goes both ways. For God is jealous to glorify His forgiveness. And pinned by the cross, He surpasses justice into mercy. Shows the (physical) thickness of mercy.
God doesn't condemn the Oppressed for holding no charges, rather God rewards it thus us in that new Law.
Christ made it impossible to justify a penal substitution.
Adam and you ended the relationship with God and sin, respectively. How? God went and sin was taken, respectively. Again, our relationship to sin(condemnation) was deprived as those sins died on the cross. God is no more jealous of our spiritual relationship to sin, because the object of that relationship is dead. So the penal substitutionary bereavement wouldn’t be a felt forsakeness of God as to God’s children, but of sin as to sinners. (Christ wasn’t a second fall of man)
PSA has a spiritual and physical penalty. The physical penalty is for sin, none actually substantially disagree, despite not needing those terms. The spiritual penalty is for the doer(spirit) of those sin. I assume a penalty would be a precision ablation of sin only. However, during PSA's second spiritual payment we are presented to God not as ourselves alone, but with sin. The way we're with sin depends if you believe total depravity: A non-calvinist PenSub may create a difference between our essence which is an "eternal need of God" and our action of receiving, trusting. But the Calvinist treat both as one, and thus paid so. Again, we owe God our presence, but that comes with wrath until either we are totally burned enough (total depravity.) Or just the trusting part of our spirit is burned enough.(Non-Calvinistic PSAT) Now that wrath, is an absence of needed goodness, choking into it’s due annihilation any sinful part. While spirits (us) of physical sins are spiritual choked by PS, reciprocally God's wrath is exhausted. (And of course, Jesus wouldn't present sinners to God to provoke a wrath emptying, unless out of obedience. Yikes.)
Again, non Calvinistic PenSubs think God is jealous that our link is to others things, instead of HimSelf. Anti-PenSubs agree with the hypercalvinist on a particular point. That is, we see the spirit of man as one. So, why do only the non-Calvinist PenSubs split the spirit of man (a need for God) from what that spirit (wants to) receive? Because the law of non-contradiction would undermine their form of PSAT. But there's an exception. And they use it. Two things can't be the same, except in a different way. All anyone has to do to justify something is to conveniently say it’s “in a different way.” Then they add the PSAT frame to support their PS.
God wouldn't make a rock too big nor sacrifice HimSelf, thus He needs man to pay Him what? Not a PS. But using this external (lack of) justification, they leech internal justifications.
People pay because they’re against things. For example, you pay for food, because you’re against starving. Now, God is against dwelling with sin, so His payment to rid sin was Jesus death. Meaning, Jesus slew sins with His Own body. It was worth the price. What would dying away that lack of relationship (lawfulness) or independence (lawlessness) look like? Simply put it back on the tree it came from. Again, God trashes sins! But that’s not PS. PSAT adds a PS to absorb wrath for no reason. But it makes itself needed by preventing God from removing sins, until He pays PS first. (Biblical? no.)
Nothing but PS makes PS needed. PSAT invites itself to the party as nothing else invites it. It goes on to lie about being the most invited. If I wrote a novel about a lover giving his life, it would take a twisted mind to infer I meant a PS. They excuse, that He does it because He’s God. So I repeat that He doesn’t do it because He’s God.
The penalty for our relationship with sin, is to die bereaved of sin, rather than be paid by a penal substitute. Only a spirit from God would be exhausted (equivalent to wrath exhaustion) under a penal substitute’s felt forsakeness. Likewise, a relationship with sin may actually thrive under a penal substitute. (Sin is nourished away from God.) God wouldn’t do that, so a PS debt circle is impossible unless it’s a scripturally detached. These are example points of detachment(logically) and attachment(for PenSubs) between the gospel and PS: Sin paid, before being able to die. Sin paid, not just died away. Sins paid, not just our spiritual relationship exhausted.
PSAT thinks:
Rather than not, Christ preferred to absorb God’s wrath.
Rather than not, God preferred to be wrathful.
Sins carried away from God, don’t need paid.
Sins not carried away from God, will never be paid.
Sins supposedly carried straight to God, is called PSAT.
God is not against His Own good wrath, but sin.
PSAT substitutes our wrongs, for His wrath
This means, emptying wrath instead of sin.
That’s wrong.
Jesus death was temporary because things being a thief is temporary.
Eternal souls are forever.
If Jesus death was eternal (packaged into 3 hours), then He’s paying for a source of life outside of God.
But God wants people to repent, believe.
Jesus released sins before He could be punished. His death, kept Him from being a penal substitute.
Sin is a problem, wrath is a proper response.
Ridding good wrath doesn’t rid the problem.
Since PSAT spends wrath, it’s superficial.
Thus God is more realistic than PSAT
Christ’s death took away sins.
Without sins, there’s no wrath.
PSAT’s wrath is causeless.
Paying wrath is to be against His Own wrath
Therefore, God cannot afford to pay.
But He can afford to pre-give our sins.
and so rid sins by giving them back,
If PS wrath doesn’t exist, it wouldn’t be at the cross.
PSAT says that without PS, PSAT wrath would be at the cross.
Then, PSAT is wrong.
If God holds sin against a dependent, He holds sin against HimSelf.
While those who aren’t His dependents, go to hell.
In either case, a PS isn’t needed.
PenSubs say that if we don’t understand PSAT we should trust God instead.
PSAT can’t be understood by any man (in that it cannot connect what’s not connectable), so we should all trust God instead.
PSAT tolls God from removing sin.
Furthermore, PSAT says God does it to HimSelf.
It’s wrong to prevent God.
PSAT thinks it’s ok, since it’s temporary.
God maybe passive toward sin, but that’s different than actively opposing HimSelf. He would not do the latter. So He wouldn’t do PSAT.
PSAT prevents God and His planned problem of evil, as a problem. We shouldn’t do that, it’s there for His glory.
PSAT is self canceling. But so long as it lives, it never allows God to remove sin. Fittingly, it’s finished when sins are.
PSAT makes justifying God more inconvenient.
God’s worth the inconvenience. So, God’s also worth removing the inconvenience.
There are three with testify against PSAT:
Nature’s logic and common sense.
PSAT in that it cancels itself for not preventing God’s forgiveness.
It testifies boldly against itself through it’s followers' threats. But the more honest needs be shy about it.
PSAT doesn’t answer how Jesus died sins away,
but it does distract from the Jesus dying away our sins.
Is it better to keep sin from God or hell from us? PSAT says the latter. Then, PSAT is wrong.
Should there be a sin outlet, or wrath outlet? PSAT says the latter. PSAT is wrong.
PSAT doesn’t make God accept sin.
PSAT doesn’t make God more willing to forgive.
PSAT doesn’t ablate sins.
PSAT only satisfies itself.
PSAT’s cause is officially and conveniently for itself: mystery, but only of darkness
Wrath release is dealt with before it splatters, but
PSAT wrath release is dealt with spattering and splattered.
PSAT is a poor metaphor, or else it’s not a metaphor.
If it’s a real thing, PSAT’s pay is either the same or different than purging sin.
If it’s the same, it’s deceitful. If it’s different, it’s wrong.
It is funner and easier to say God condemns or destroys transgressions at the cross.
If God hated us,
He'd hate HimSelf -for trying to save us.
He would also hate HimSelf -for being against those who He’s for.
PS uses dark ignorance, not real mystery, to not admit such things.
PSAT is a breach in Sola Scriptura.
Trusting God for PSAT, is trusting PSAT in place of God.
God temporarily let’s PSAT oppose Him, so that it’s followers may repent.
Now, as you have been so fervent in spirit with PSAT, how much better will your zeal shine without it? For when PSAT is not blocking the sun, knowledge will grow.
A temporary course correction is all that’s needed, as opposed to an eternal PS. A PS couldn’t be eternal unless God supported sin that long, since sin has no life in itself.
However you say it: PS splits God and damns one as God doesn't justify Who He condemns. Yet if He did, then in that same way (passing the buck: us to Christ to sin) He wouldn't commit PS because sins would be already condemned without Christ. (note transgression can take the buck: die without eternally dying)
After Jesus died, Jesus was already preaching Jn 19:30, 1Pe 3:19. I mean, sins were already gone.
Their justification through repetition is known as “the truth effect.”
God comes down, both pre-giving sins with His flesh, while giving us a new will with His Spirit.
God gives and pre-gives. Without Him, our nature is only to take. He designed us unable to replace Him. Even so, a love of being owed is the root of all evil.
I notice a two-fold atonement in the Bible. The New Covenant consists not without both works (after salvation) and relationship.
Works
It’s impossible to have less rewards than opportunities to earn those rewards. God prepared the max number of rewards which He for knew. If you don’t go to heaven, or just miss out on some rewards- they will be given to another. God has provided enough physical inheritance for each believer to "PAY OFF" anything that believer physically does, including deeds before salvation. Those with God's Spirit have liberty in the flesh to steal their own heavenly reward. This is actually and interestingly "Christian liberty." This physical liberty is for the spiritually dependent. Whether or not you are born of God, determines whether you'll be in heaven or hell. What you do in this body is what determines your RECOMPENSE in the respective afterlife.
At the expense of your inheritance in Christ, God PREVENTS you from sinning against Him physically. Why? Because God won't contradict HimSelf. (This prevents what PSAT attempts to resolve.) Again, God has us steal from OURSELVES, instead of Him. God WOULDN'T let us steal from Him. Why? God is passive toward those children who may yet repent. Meaning he holds back, doesn't execute their condemnation.
To let his dependent sin is His fault. But since He's without fault, that's impossible. To sin against God, would contradict God. As His child, He never lets you do that because He has no contradictions. So, God holds nothing against His dependents. That would contradict Him.
Adam was God’s dependent and should had remained so. Nevertheless, God keeps all men in a semi dependent, low responsibility state till judgment. (Satan and the beast have no need of death before judgment.) God treats us as only children of wrath by not yet executing the condemnation we bear. This is the gentleness which begins all life and from we derive “human rights,” or “a good send off.” God gives us this time for us to repent and Christ to prevent a PS as logical.
Basically God provides the authority to hurt Sam, provided we basically serve Sam in the afterlife. God can't contradict HimSelf, but He can contradict Sam provided a just RECOMPENSE.
Relationship
Our spirits are due to be born of God. We WERE not God's spiritual dependents BEFORE our spiritually connecting to Him. Nothing is held in favor of unbelievers, and nothing is held against believers. Without the Spirit, God accepts no work. It is enough, for Jesus to just lay down and die when we kill Him. He can freely give us that much. But that is not enough for the spirit behind the action, I mean the lack of God's motives, I’m talking about a relationship with God. We're not good on the inside, even if Jesus gives us everything on the outside. We have His death outlet for our deeds, but what about the deeper part in our heart? That part which lacks His intentions. Christ gave HimSelf to God. So God gave Christ's Spirit into all of our hearts, to make us good. So how does getting His Spirit make sins go away? As our Spiritual Head, connection with God, or Mediator: He's our ONLY NEW WAY TO SIN against God. But He never did, nor will. Thus, He has spiritual disabled us from doing anything against God. It's all filtered. There you go!
(God never contradicts HimSelf actively, through His dependents. So it was necessary to be released from the devil’s shackles of independence. Christ took power from satan. But satan is not the spirit of our sins like we are.)
About Me:
Your
relationship with God is most important to you. Sin blocks that
relationship. So, sin must be removed! Jesus does that ablation. But
PSAT prevents it with a Penal Substitution.
We all agree
with general ablation. But I am forced to add Ablation-Only, in order
to prevent PSAT from preventing general ablation with a PS. So you
can call me, Sola Ablation.
You may have two problems with me:
The problem of evil is only the temporary day we live in, and in which our Lord was crucified. God made the problem of evil for repentance. The problem of evil means we have some responsibility that we shouldn’t have. For God is worth the evil, the cross declares that rather than trying to minus it (as PSAT).
The second problem you may have with me is that your flesh would use my truths as license to sin.
Summarizing PS:
PSAT 1:1 God's always gets even. (Not Just! say they, to ablate sin without PS. But that's Self-Justification at the expense of God's attributes.)
PSAT 1:2 Christ's death and our hell, are in a relationship of payment and fee.
PSAT 1:3 Without this fee being paid, there's no forgiveness of sins. (Nor with the fee, When God owes you as much as you owe Him that PS is complete. For sins to be PS debt is mutually exclusive of sins being garbage to purge.)
PSAT 1:4 God poured wrath on the Son. (No, God didn't condemn Him but left Him to men.)
PSAT 1:5 Jesus took our place. (Jesus wasn't guilty of the sin He carried.)
PSAT 1:6 The PS debt is paid off. (The debt doesn't exist. Jesus justifies no sin with pay, but us. That is, He paid His blood to carry sins away, as God justly so hates them.)
Further study of wrath: (using BibleGod.com)
Gen 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again (to execute condemnation): for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
said Phinehas had turned His wrath away from the children of Israel, that He consumed not the children of Israel in His jealousy... said He gave unto Phinehas His covenant of peace.
the LORD saw that they humbled themselves,... I will not destroy them, but I will grant them some deliverance; and my wrath shall not be poured out upon Jerusalem... when he humbled himself, the wrath of the LORD turned from him, that he would not destroy [him] altogether:... humbled himself for the pride of his heart, [both] he and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the wrath of the LORD came not upon them
the LORD turned not from the fierceness of his great wrath, wherewith his anger was kindled against Judah, because of all the provocations that Manasseh had provoked him withal. (the Lord had always warned them) the wrath of the LORD arose against his people, till [there was] no remedy
They're punished when they're bad enough. God doesn't blame the wrong person. Rather perhaps, punishment after judgment seems to spill back into this life? (Or, mini pre-judgments maybe discounts/credits real judgment to come)
Because of a poor current relationship, you bring up past sins. But when the relationship is good, you don't pull out all those memories to pay them, but instead forget them until the relationship gets sour. Since Jesus got and maintains for us a good relationship with God, the sins are never brought up again as to be paid.
Does God have wrath on His people? No. God has patience on all men and wrath on enemies. His people need no curse but for reward. Not all Israel believed. Paul said, it was for remaining in unbelief that Israel was ‘punished’ in the wilderness. Faith pleases God.